A relational world | Dame Anne Salmond
Why binary thinking breaks us 💔
I sat down with Dame Anne Salmond - a thinker whose mind is vast, and whose heart is strong and rooted very much in the soil of Aotearoa. Dame Anne is an anthropologist, writer, and one of our most decorated scholars, but what shapes her most is relationship - whakapapa, whenua, and whānau.
Part 1
In this first part of our kōrero, we start where all good conversations should: at the kitchen table. Dame Anne tells me about her wild and wonderful upbringing in a family of nine kids, where dinner was frequently like a full-blown debate club, and learning happened between bites. We talk about difference - political, personal - and why being able to think, laugh and disagree together is something worth holding on to.
She also shares the love story behind Waikereru, Longbush Reserve, the eco-sanctuary she and her husband Jeremy created near her childhood haunts on the outskirts of Gisbourne, and how that land became a place of healing, beauty, and belonging for them both.
This part of the conversation is full of life - stories of childhood, learning the deeper meanings of whakapapa, parenting, joy, grief, restoration, and deep connection to place.
Part 2
In part two of my conversation with Dame Anne Salmond, we go deeper - into wānanga (the meeting of ideas), into te ao Māori (Māori worldview), and into the kind of thinking that could help us live better together.
Dame Anne speaks about her decades-long relationship with her Māori mentors, Eruera and Amiria Stirling, and how those relationships rewired her understanding of the world. We talk about what it means to live in a relational way - and how te reo Māori doesn’t just name the world, it can reshape it. This kōrero makes space for where anthropology meets awe, and scholarship meets soul.
We also talk about tapu and mana, and how those concepts aren’t just beautiful - they are power filled. We discuss Te Tiriti o Waitangi, not as a document of rights and rules, but as a sacred gift exchange rooted in respect. We touch on our tendency towards binary thinking, as well as politics, creativity, and (because its good to rock the boat at times), the purpose of universities - and why the best ideas are born in spaces where words can be blown about by the wind and shone on by the sun.
This conversation is a gift. It’s a call back to care, and forward into complexity, beauty, and balance.
🎧 Listen to the episode on the rova app, Spotify or Apple Podcasts.
Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.